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hello everybody uh thank you for having


me at this conference at uh before we


start I would like to say a few things


because uh from my perspective it's a


huge honor to be here for two reasons at


least for two reasons one I


am not the Ruby guy sorry for that uh


I'm usually


uh writing a PHP code so I expect some


book right now


okay I can handle it


and the second the second reason is that


uh this Institute of computer science is


my alma leather I graduated here many


many years ago


I had an opportunity to to teach some


students here how to use those


techniques uh to model the software so


which one for me


so uh this talk will be about the good


and the bad and the remote part of the


collaborative domain modeling with


different storming yes in the title of


this talk there is an even storming but


this talk is not about the even storming


itself there's a bunch of presentations


uh describing what the even storming is


how you can use it how we can combine it


with different approaches like domain


driven design just to create a software


that matters the software which is uh


easy to evolve and handle maintain in


the long term but I would like to focus


about the surrounding and of course if


you don't know what the even Stormer is


we'll create a small definition


as I I was introduced by Andre


margeville


I'm a software architect for I don't


know 22 23 years something like that


um xcto trainer consultant last couple


of years I'm usually using those


technical domain driven design even


storming to refactor


old Legacy because there is a business


reasons to evolve the software so I'm


using those techniques


on my daily basis I'm also hosting a


podcast which is called a battle design


and I'm very very curious who is


familiar with this podcast


oh thank you very much


rest of you has a homework


because this podcast is about software


architecture unfortunately it's in


Polish but there are a few episodes in


English so if you would like to go up so


the good part and the spoiler there are


some ways how it can work and how we can


use those techniques like even storming


which was designed to run off-site uh in


the digital world I would like to talk a


little bit about the bedside and


unfortunately there is still some


problems there are still some problems


uh in the in this digital world and then


finally the remote part which is the


spoiler it's a good and the bad side uh


for the same time


so the even storming the technique which


was mentioned in the top title


the epistomic


um the short introduction I can provide


you is the way how we can discuss the


software the problem


by analyzing the events which happen


inside this problem so instead of


instead of creating at the beginning use


cases how you would like to use the


system


um creating maybe database at the


beginning of the project instead of that


you can start


to talk about something which happened


inside this problem you can start to


identify some business domain events


for example describing very very


important changes in your domain you can


organize them one by one over the time


and then you can start to have a


meaningful conversations around those


events


because this event in the even storming


technique is just the beginning because


if you can identify in your problem in


your application in your business


scenario


something interesting which happened for


example the order was created maybe the


customer canceled the payments on things


like that


there is a bunch of options you can


explore


for example you can ask yourself your


colleagues your domain expert the person


with the knowledge why I've got this


even even in my system what was the


trigger you can name it you can point it


you can point your finger over the


timeline and say here there was an


action


which triggered this event


so if you've got an event you can ask


now what is the trigger if you've got a


trigger you can ask yourself your


colleagues one more time your domain


experts


that maybe we can see some other


consequences some other events


and starting from the single orange


sticky note you can explore the first


scenario and after all you see all the


actions all the changes all the


processes


are existing in your software in your


problem space


so when you see it from the developer


point of view


you may some you may extract some very


important things we need to implement


for example if you will be able to


notice that


some parts of your events which are the


consequence of this particular action we


are talking about should happened in the


scenario in the pattern All or Nothing


so there is no way that you can postpone


one of them for example you see free


events and you can you cannot postpone


any of them because if you postpone it


in the software you put it on the Queue


you perform some asynchronic operations


and this event will be handled let's say


five seconds later


there is a bunch of business problems


and you cannot do that


if you see that this and this and this


event should happen under this and this


and this condition and these conditions


are related to the trigger you already


pointed


you may start to think that maybe in my


software it should happen inside for


example a single object


and then combining this even storming


approach


with other texting flux dominator in


design things like that


um may lead you to the conclusions that


in my software there are some places


where I should care for example for data


consistency data integrity and then


maybe you will be able to see some


aggregates


and maybe your domain expert may say


something like that that this event this


event this event when those events


happen and you perform this particular


action


I expect this and this and this and not


my expert May Point some other events


from the from the workshop and then you


can extract an acceptance criteria you


can use it for example given one then


approach and then you can automate it


as a test


so as you see starting from very very


single


um important change in your domain may


lead you to very interesting conclusion


from the developer point of view because


starting from this you can even design


the whole system


so this is why I care about the even


storming so much because for many other


techniques I tested in last years many


years


this is a best approach which leads you


which allows me to achieve probably the


best result in the shortest amount of


the time of course not the even storming


itself but even storming combined with


other approach like


mentioned already domain driven design


so before 2020


the typical even storming session looked


like that this is a recession the


production photo


I mean the photo from the production


session session taken are probably at


Warsaw in Poland so that whole room


large a lot of parts is debunked a lot


of space a lot of materials a lot of


domain experts a lot of people who would


like to gather this knowledge because we


need to deliver a software right and


then


we have conversations


sometimes you see that in the room there


are 30 people sometimes too this also


production photo from production session


or sometimes you can see even the Andre


on the session


um it was I think in Russia right


a couple years ago


the main reason uh why I would like to


have domain experts developers everyone


involved in the project in the same room


because of this moment


um because sometimes the domain expert


or the developer may say looking on the


same event that


it's not exactly that it shouldn't be


this way it should be done this way and


this way in this way I don't agree with


you so uh using this


um very very easy approach and not so


complicated technique


we can speed up a lot of development


before even a single line of code will


be written


so for example if Andrea talk about the


domains not even storming combined with


the Strategic domain driven design is


one of the way how you can create a


boundaries in your software for example


for different applications for different


modules for different microservices and


those boundaries will allows you to


evolve the software in the long term


but


in 2020


another domain even happened so


something important happened


and one event across the boundary and


the whole world exploded


so


I don't know is what is your experience


but I had a opportunity to work with


different teams and in in almost every


single team


were before on every single Mythic you


saw


a smiling faces after the March 2020


all you saw on the meetings was like


that


looks familiar


yeah


moreover


I used to


um rely on communication skills during


this kind of Workshop because the best


way how we can communicate is just have


a conversation but every single


conversation every single meeting even


today


starts from this weird question


do you hear me


and uh


in this environment under this


circumstances


I decided to run probably in I don't


know my 2020. a workshop because in


March


on the in Poland the first lockdown was


introduced I stopped


working with this approach because I


have no possibility to to work with him


face to face


because every single Workshop before the


pandemic


was in offline


so I started


I run the workshop


and I was surprised because it was very


very efficient everyone was involved


and uh


of course I'm joking because the first


meeting was a completely disaster


everyone was on mute no one would like


to participate in the workshop the goal


for this Workshop wasn't achieve


and of course there was a problem with


the financing


so the big big [ __ ] up so I realized


that in one moment when this lockdown


was introduced


I lost my very very important tool in my


software architect toolbox


unlimited unbounded and unrestricted


Communications


so during this Workshop I realized that


the interactions the possibility are to


chat with the domain expert to learn


about the events to share my thinking


about these events is completely gone


I have no possibility to interact


the body language another tool I heavily


rely on because sometimes during the


workshop imagine that you've got the


situation that there is a development


team the management team the CEO of the


company


got multiple scenarios


as a facilitator you should take care of


for example


maybe you would like to note about the


problems because the Sea of the company


is in the room


so you don't speak but your body will


speak for you so as a facilitator I was


looking for the body language


but when it comes to you know Zoom


meetings


and Google hangouts or any other tools


there is nobody language


what I see is blurry face


even if you turn on your camera so body


language go


the group switching during the


offline even storming when you've got


for example 10 meters of modeling space


you've got three four five domain


experts you can vote by your legs do you


agree with them do are you interested in


if not you can switch the group


everything is smooth no one even noticed


that you modified


your your group and you would like to


participate in different approach


when it comes to online meetings


you probably were assigned to a


particular group and you cannot modify


it so group switching gone and after all


all the engagement


which also I heavily rely on completely


gone


so this is why I was was disaster


so Alberta bundling is the inventor of


the even storming a few years ago


throughout this this book introduction


to the even storming


and after this Workshop one thing hit me


that for the second time very very


strongly because in this book there was


or there is a chapter dedicated chapter


about the remote it was storming how to


perform this in digital world


the problem is that


this chapter


is intentionally left blank


I'm not surprised


unfortunately all my experience


as a developer or the architect as a


person who used this approach to design


a software immediately gone


but


as engine said we started to work in


some groups just to learn how we can use


this technique again


under the current situation because it


seems that the pandemic the the remote


world will be with us for a little bit


longer than expected


so I started to think how I can use this


situation for me


I don't know if we are familiar with


Hunter Kaiser he said many interesting


things but one is that the problems


for you should be just opportunities to


work close


but what does it mean so from the


perspective of the development


um we can create


some problems just to learn something so


let me introduce for example


um this if you are for example a user of


object rational mapper and Deals fall


soft to rely on it


forget about RM start to use even


sourcing not in the production


in your for example but project for one


day


you can choose


if you are using object oriented design


and you are heavily rely on the state


go functional forget about the state


if you are using the if statement in the


code


try to use something different and try


to avoid using this particular statement


for a moment and you will


probably learn a lot because you will


see that creation


limitation allows you to see a


completely different solutions maybe


even


which are invisible before


uh


so no pain no gain


so you can start learning this way and


during the march 2020


everyone in the in the internet probably


start to learn this particular chart is


chart representing the trend for the


phrase online whiteboard


so probably you know exactly


what is the date before


this particular


chart represent a term mirror whiteboard


so


I started to use those applications


on the production and I will realize


that one more time I lost another my


important tool


which is unlimited expression because if


you are running a workshop


in in in the world you've got some


Sharpies you've got some papers you've


got some stickies that's it this is all


you need to create a model of your


software believe it or not on the sticky


you can create the model how you would


like to have this software later in the


implementation phase


if the model


is not working


the code will not work as well


if the code is working if the project is


working on the stickies there is a


chance that you can create an


implementation for those and everything


is sticky from this for example


evenstomic Workshop can be translated


for something which can be implemented


for example the event the events


represent an important change so you can


emit the event in your application


but still they event represent important


change


my object was changed I changed a


property so I see in the model the event


but the implementation


I see a line which changed this


particular object the comment the


comment is trigger for a change yeah it


can be a commodity command handle


pattern why not but why not think about


the comment like a method invocation


so if you will be able after this


Workshop


establish a connection between


the model and your programming Style


this is just a visual representation of


your code


and of course it's not the main goal of


the storm because the main goal is to


understand the problem


but yeah you've got a multiple options


so this is why I believe this this


technique is worth to explore


so usually on this kind of Workshop I


create a lot of for example


visualizations


because as Eric Evans said sometimes all


you need to do is create a metaphor


metaphor of your system so one of the


large-scale structure described in the


form of DDD book


is about the metaphors sometimes all you


need is visualize things


but if you're using a tool like mirror


like moral like click up maybe you have


some limitations so your creativity your


expression is completely limited and you


cannot achieve your goals for this


particular session


fortunately


all those tools


started to learn


as people said so almost every single


session in the pandemic when we started


they running with the mirror or any


other tool


there was a message okay so we've got a


new feature this one this one this one


and suddenly those tools which were I


believe completely


um unusable before the pandemia started


to be a game changer for this kind of


workshops


so the first advice from this talk I


would like to to share you is know your


tools


and I can bet


with every single one of you that even


if you are talking about your


programming editor you are not using I


don't know 30 percent of features this


tool you allow to perform


so maybe even I should correct myself


because we shouldn't know our tools


we should Master the tool


maybe the tools so the question is why


because


your tool set


of your tool you are using


should be the size of your microservice


you can Implement in your system the


question is why


the answer is because it should be as


small as possible as Batman smaller and


the question is why and the answer is


because during this kind of Workshop


when you are have a conflict your


opportunity to work with maybe non-very


technical people you should for any cost


avoid overwhelming them


so if you introduce a bunch of different


tools


solving dedicated problems but there are


many of them


it will be very very hard


to achieve the goal for this particular


modeling session


so


my go-to set of the tools currently is


the mirror plus Zam


if you can eliminate one of them but


still you can have a possibility to work


it's even better


so the the mirror allows me to express


everything because this tool


um


it's not putting any limitations


what you can design


but many other tools which are dedicated


to even storming modeling trying to put


some conventions and they are trying to


limit you if you would like to for


example visualize something like


relationships like maybe some other


pictures that should


help participants to understand what's


going on because sometimes the one


picture one single picture can deliver


more insights than any other you know


description or event


it will be broken


so if you are master your tool if you've


got this you know in your fingertips you


know all the shortcuts and things like


that you can be very very efficient and


the best


you probably don't want to put yourself


in the situation when you are trying


during this kind of Workshop


Express the problem visualize the the


visualize the things you are talking


about


spending 10 minutes


when everyone in the room for example 25


persons are waiting for you because this


is the weight of the time


and of course this kind of tools if we


can move the modeling to the


to the online world


and against to the offline situation


allow us to speed up to see a different


possibilities sometimes all you need to


do during this kind of Workshop is to


split the modeling group to see that the


same thing can be treated and


implemented and modeled completely


differently if you've got only one idea


how to implement something


you shouldn't implement it


always it's worth to see another


approach maybe one maybe two maybe three


and then you've got an option


and imagine that setuping scenarios


that's set upping the the stage the the


place when you when different different


groups can model the same thing


it usually takes at least 10 minutes and


then you've got a game


so and of course one thing which is


extremely important


um and uh and you can get some benefits


from that is that you are no longer


limited to the persons in the particular


situation in the room I mean


digital even storming allows you to


invite any persons you would like to


have from the world of course there is a


problem with the time zones and then


things like that but


it's way better to have someone in the


room on the call


than having a flight


to different country which is a cost


on efficient ends like that


so having a different perspectives which


weren't in the room before is something


which will be very very


um


difficult to drop in the future


when we decide to go


from online to offline


so but even if you


are able to master the tool even if you


are able to invite the people from the


you know different countries and you


know how exactly it performed this


particular session


a different scenario may happen for


example


um imagine that you've got 20 different


25 different persons from different


organizations on the call and suddenly


your network is going to stop the work


or your audio


is going to stop to work


but by the way this example is taken


from my experience from this week I was


talking to the to the team on the call I


was pretty sure that everyone in the


room muted the microphone because there


was some noisy background


I after a few minutes I realized that


there was a problem with my computer


because I didn't hear them


under the hood my computer runs some


updates


which completely ruined my permissions


on the laptop and I need to restart


everything so imagine


how difficult it was when you've got for


example in the room the Sea of the


company


and you cannot handle this kind of


situation


and finally the power supply will be cut


off so all these scenarios are taken


from my personal experience


unfortunately


from this mouth


so everything will fail so be prepared


this is why current scenario


for this kind of Workshop


even


if you are prepared so always have a


backup plan backup plan for the internet


connection backup plan for the


microphone backup plan for everything


because


like in reward everything May Fail


so


sometimes you can make even this kind of


scenario that


one day before the workshop


you will get a question


from the attendees


that or the the statement that we cannot


store the data outside UI


and if you


rely heavily on a single tool like a


mirror


it's maybe a very problematic because


suddenly the cloud


seems to be a problem because of the


data location


so if you face this kind of situation


probably your experience or your


existing experience with this tool your


confidence goal one more time


so if you would like to run this


Workshop or any other Workshop in a


little bit larger scale so please be


preferred be prepared for everything so


expect unexpected


is the very very interesting option


so


but Digital World allows us to perform a


one thing I believe way better than


before


because usually when it comes to the


session organization there is a lot of


problems a lot of


um hotel booking a lot of traveling


things like that organizations to allows


few people be in the same room


in particular for example place


and then you've got one two three days


to solve the problem because you've got


an access to domain expert to people


with knowledge for very very limited


amount of time


so it can be very very exhausted so


instead of that if you've got an access


to the person even outside the globe


so way better option would be to work


with the cycles so every single cycle


can be splitted into the plan into the


work rethink an iterate space because


for example if you would like to achieve


something


every single session every single


Workshop should be very very well


prepared so the goal the outcome should


be visible for you as a fast data


because then you know what kind of


actions what kind of Explorations you


would like to perform


so the work


the plant the work the riffing and the


reiterate and where is the better


approach so in the real world


when you've got the access to the domain


experts for example for two three days


you've got only one or two points moment


in the time when you can correct


your Workshop usually after a day after


the day you can think what's happened if


you are on course maybe yes maybe no and


you can adjust your direction


if you can expand this workshop for a


little bit longer maybe you can put some


extra days between the sessions maybe


you can reduce number of hours you are


on the call for example instead of eight


hours you can work four hours


there's a way better chance to


adjust the course because after


every single iteration you've got the


point when you can decide is it okay for


us or not or what we would like to


change


so but the structure of the session in


remote would be a little bit different


because usually


uh when it comes to the offline even


storming you've got everyone in the room


so there is a lot of communication


everyone is talking with everyone


but in remote when you are using for


example Zoom or any other software and


you are using subgroups


you broke a lot of communication


channels


so


everything will split when you're


splitting the attendees you're splitting


the knowledge


so every single split


should become the merge after all


because maybe one group realize there is


an issue with the software and then we


need to talk about


so you're working usually


with this structure the split the merge


the speed the merge


sometimes even with the bigger number of


the groups


so what does that mean for you as a


person


who lead this Workshop


because every single time you need to be


fully focused on expectations for every


single group even if you are talking


with single group you should be ready to


react what happened in other groups if


you see before the workshop that number


of the groups you are trying to


um


engage


to to to extract this domain knowledge


is higher maybe your plan should be


adjusted so reacting on the workshop is


probably the worst thing you can do


react before the workshop so plan and


plan and plan


so establishing the channels


establishing the spaces for every single


group


to to work together


for example on the mirror another tools


is crucial


oh but however


even if you are talking you know also


with this high level perspective how


this Workshop can be performed there is


still a space for one thing


for creativity


so this picture was taken on the


production Workshop


this picture was taken on the online


Workshop all the production


I didn't miss maybe it looks very very


silly like some icons some smiles and


things like that but when it comes to


discussion about a very very complicated


problems and there are some you know


problems in the communication


adding some fun is a secret source which


makes a conversation a little bit easier


because


suddenly it's way easier to


conversate even with the CEO of the


company


so as you see the good part is that yeah


there are some ways how we can work in


this current situation


and unfortunately fortunately there are


some opportunities we can we can use for


example we've got some access to the


people which are completely inaccessible


for us before


the bad part is yes there's uh we need


to still work mostly remotely for many


person persons yes this is a problem but


other side is that some parts of this


Workshop especially when it comes to the


large-scale worship when you've got


let's say 30 person in the room


uh probably at the beginning it was will


still don't work because of


communications channels


so the remote from my perspective is


still the good and the bad


I can extract some good part for me so


from my perspective can online replace


the offline in some scenarios yes in


some scenarios when it comes to the for


example a very very detailed


modeling sessions when you are talking


about the concrete solution you are not


exploring the online event can beat the


offline and I would like prefer the


online Workshop instead of offline so


for you I don't know everyone have


probably


a unique perspective


so thank you very much Amanda happy


remote sessions


[Applause]


um did you experiment with such uh


sessions which are


because of the time zone issues or


because they were so complicated that


they were kind of asynchronous that some


people didn't overlap with each other


the question was motivated probably no I


have no experience with the asynchronic


even storming because from my


perspective adding a single event to the


board usually can introduce another


another questions another opinions so at


least from my perspective it will


extend the term the period for the fall


for the whole event very very and it's


probably not good for my past


foreign


so usually developers want to write code


and they don't really need like planning


uh participating in you know sessions


workshops stuff like that so how do you


convince your teammates to participate


and be vocal and proactive


a good question


um from my point of view if you will be


able to see that the model of the


discussion I I mean the the notes the


stickies uh which were created and


discussed can be converted into the


software


it's a game changer


uh but it's very very hard to see at the


beginning


so for example uh the case from this


week we started to analyze one scenario


from the application in into the client


world so we started from the events we


started to to ask the domain experts


about the triggers so we've got some


events we've got some comments


and then we started to explore the


conditions uh why those triggers why


those comments cannot be executed so we


discovered I'm trying to avoid a term


rule because right now is very very uh


interesting topic on the Twitter about


this naming in the even storming so


let's call it conditions and then we we


are able to combine them together I mean


I see the whole process I see the whole


rules I see that all the consequences we


need to handle in the application by the


consequences I mean saves into the


database


because this is a meaningful change for


me as a developer it's so important I


need to store it


so we started to explore uh by


discussion with domain experts


under some conditions


can we or we can't postpone some events


so we discover


some islands of the events which should


happen together


because if you postpone it if you split


them there are some issues very very


painful for the business


so we started to think okay so if this


is a process and we see exactly how the


process looks like


so how we can to translate into that


code


so we started to extract some


informations some nouns which are


visible in this in this in this process


so we started to see that we are


touching some data we see the rules how


we touching those data and finally we


will be able to model an object which


contains those data which fire which


emit those events and which is able to


handle those commands we are seeing the


model


and the last part was the naming we see


something how it looks like how it


behaves so okay let's make another step


let's name it


and what is


really really interesting


the the last step was if we add


a keyword class or private or public


we've got a model of the software we've


got the object so if you see or if you


can see that you can extract your design


for example I I express an object


scenario but you can express an API or


boundaries of your of your bounded


context and you can translate the


outcomes of this discussion into the


software


yeah you don't need to convince them


if the a little bit earlier you might


extract some acceptance criteria with


this given when then approach for


example


and uh from the thing up into view now


you see okay I've got a test to the


extracted object so you can convert it


you can merge it and after all it's very


very


hard to question this model I mean that


after all all you need to do is to you


know convert those stickies into the


code


and I know that maybe it sounds very


very weird what I'm talking about but


there are some presentations on the


YouTube maybe there I will link it on


the on the Twitter then you can see the


whole process


if you see the one passage over this


this process from idea to the code you


know as I mentioned you don't need to


convince anybody


thank you very much for your


presentation


um for sharing your


experience and perspective I really feel


inspired and I have two questions uh


first about this merge maybe I need to


move a bit about this merch face you


mentioned


from my experience from remote I


uh frequently field that when people


meet together they kind of


in totally different worlds and it's


hard to like find where do they actually


should start to uh find what is common


what is different and I wonder how do


you moderate it to really achieve this


merge


usually the merge I mean before the


match there was a subgroup discussions


every single group was using a very very


strict terminology as a baseline maybe


it was extended because uh why not if


it's help to to express the discussion


term


on the the merch


um I usually perform that I'm trying to


interpret the result of the group work


so if I don't interpret correctly okay


so there is a chance that I can be


corrected and everyone in the room can


be connected and corrected as well so


this is my Approach uh maybe sometimes I


would like to ask some you know the type


questions just to precise things


but uh I would like to also avoid the


situation that this merge scenario will


take for example one hour because you


know we've got some limited time usually


a few hours per day so the split the


work the split the work usually I'm


using some time boxes just to have you


know everything on track


and of course I don't know how many


iterations will be needed to to achieve


the goal but maybe maybe we can do it a


little bit earlier maybe we need some


extra iterations about this this works


for me


thanks and if I may I have one more


question


even storming is awesome when you


actually can gather people who are


needed there but as you mentioned


sometimes they're


issues with with time zones that's one


reason but you also have people who are


so busy that you cannot really get them


on the calendar with the rest of the


group and I wonder


how do you approach them do you have


some


tested approach that works for you uh


usually I've got two approaches for


persons who cannot participate for the


full line one is that using this um


discussion about the events sometimes


there are some you know questions which


are very very hard to answer because the


knowledge is missing this particular


person you're talking about is outside


the room so but we can annotate this


problem and after the session but before


the next iteration we can gather the


answer so this is one first approach uh


note that the questions got the


knowledge between the session and


present the result at the beginning on


the next session uh and the the second


approach is way simpler when you plan


the the workshop and we know who should


be


um in the room why and things like that


uh sometimes there is a set of the


people which are on call


just like that and then um this kind of


person probably will be on call and then


if you've got a problem okay let's this


person can join us for example for a few


minutes answer the particular question


and to leave the the room because it's


very very busy so those Solutions work


for me very very well


thank you very much


hello Mario hello a really nice


presentation but I have a question to


you in regarding not maybe even storming


but in general Workshop uh in a problem


in a positive scenario for example you


have a whole team a lot of the people


that it's needed to do a workshops full


Engagement full faith in success it


doesn't matter it's I don't know for


hours online or free there is offline


and from my experience I see a lot of


situations when the whole team was wow


we will do it we will change it yeah it


will change it if we are able to change


it everything will be solved it's great


but the workshops


ended


and nothing's happened but not right


really nothing's happened but people


like changing the mood the mode from the


workshops like a holy night like we have


a fading success to


um


it will take a year now I don't want to


touch this part of


and do you have any advice to not like


be an attendant or prepare workshops or


wherever in an organization structure


but to keep a faith in sort of success


to


um


make from the theoretical discussion


like the sticky notes into a real goals


Real Results


I can provide you an example of from


Wednesday this week because exactly this


problem was mentioned after the workshop


how what is the next step and the voice


in the room was because we have a


roadmap


we've got some tickets to do and then


maybe we'll be able to perform something


for example next year


I believe there are to answer at least


one the question is why even we organize


this Workshop


maybe it wasn't a best idea because


right now the mood and the things to


mentioned but the second approach will


be if the workshop on the workshop we


created some outcomes we've got some


idea what can be done in this in this


project uh usually was which was the


best is to create a person of the plan


and assign to the plant the person that


okay I need you as a change um


agents change sorry for that and now


it's your responsibility to push it


so if the responsibility will be on the


group


nothing will happen usually if the


responsibility is on the person a single


person and this person has a privilege


in the organization to push yeah


the outcome will be introduced to the


software however of course there are


scenario that you need some budget for


that you need some you know time for


development and so on and so on so you


need to speak to the person which is


responsible in the organization for


granting the permission to do that


um in terms which is which are really


easy to understand in this person for


example if you would like to introduce


the outcome and the benefits for the


organizations


um to the non-technical person using the


terminology that


if we do this and this and this the


quality metric the alcohol metric will


be so good


nothing will happen now you should um


identify


the reason or the business reason or the


business argument which will be easy to


understand for the second party like for


example we if we do this outcome from


this motion if we will implement it for


example we will speed up the development


or we'll be able to deliver a missing


features for example in this period of


the time so the person who will be you


know interested in pushing in the


marketing in the organization


but the question is the the first


question should be in the year why we


even organize the session yeah because


if there was for example internal


session from the development team how we


can improve the world and there is no


budget for improving the world


nothing happened something should be


done before this Workshop


as I mentioned in terms of the plan


but we can discuss it the problem is


very very large yeah and complex so we


can we can discuss it during the break


if you would like to okay so thank you


very much one more time


have a nice conference