Ingestion cefc0ee3 extracted

Extractions (1)

Content

okay so maybe let's start our panel


about enterprise rails please meet the


expert Nitin hello from event eat Andre


from race event store and Nick from


trailblazer so there are a few questions


you can still add more questions to the


gist


so I will try to ask them the first


question is what are the worst things


that can happen in enterprise rails kind


of projects and how to protect from them


I mean you're the expert right you


running a company so the worst thing


that's gonna happen is that you no


longer earn money and that's a result of


not being able to maintain the system or


keep it stable or keep it running and I


think that by definition enterprise


rails means something like when the


application starts making money as as


opposed to the startups for example and


when you have complicated business


processes and you need to like maintain


them in the longer run usually you have


more programmers in those systems I


think when you when you lose control


over the codebase question but what is


enterprise whereas I wonder like what's


the definition of an enterprise rails


application and those words go


hand-in-hand


I'm sure there's precise definition but


I would say like once your company has


you know departments and stuff like that


and your application is heavily use it


doesn't mean that you have to need that


you need to have many users it's just


now people are using it and it's like


various your organization becomes more


structured or


so like might be successful applications


well I think like whenever I started at


the beginning and there was this big


thing in the community that we are anti


enterprise that was like what djh was


always saying there was basically like


trying to be Punk but he chose the wrong


word because enterprise software I


looked it up on Wikipedia actually to


prepare for this panel if he appears


like a webpage on the internet like I


don't know if you know it and enterprise


software means it's a software for more


than one person that's literally what it


says on Wikipedia in the intro you know


anybody can edit Wikipedia right but


it's democracy hello yeah you're from


America you probably it's : why do you


think it got out and came here I'll say


the worst thing that can happen if


you're doing rails and and and also


enterprise software is active record


that's a good point what's active record


Oh what isn't active record I think it's


a better question yeah so the I think


the the the general question we are


addressing is enterprise rails means


you're using rails in a professional


environment you want to have software


that is maintainable running that is fun


to work with I mean I'm enjoying my job


I'm sorry and the problem is that


certain frameworks I'm not saying any


names here right now uh-huh


kind of hard to deal with after a


certain amount of complexities edit and


active record for example is it good is


it good is a good word because it's not


making it simple to to add features


without breaking other stuff yeah


specifically I think when you don't


partition your system and you arrive at


the kind of complexity that is always


there in enterprise systems and if you


haven't partitioned and everything's in


one giant place and one


giant universe then everything slows


down it becomes hard to make changes


becomes hard to understand what's going


on to read the code when you want to


make a change in one place you have to


go make corresponding changes everywhere


you have to do data migrations and data


cleanup which is actually not what I


mean enterprise in my understanding is


besides the Wikipedia definition it's


like am i make a build a system that is


maintainable yeah and so so I'm


struggling with rails like a railway


system and maintainability in the same


context because it's really hard to


maintain a rail system no offense once


he's good


what is it gets big once it gets complex


but that's I mean enterprise means you


are successful that means you have more


than one page showing a coffee shop in


you have more than 100 active records


and you have 100 that's nothing man I'd


seen 700 yes what I was I mean I think


the panel is about there is enterprise


rails applications I mean there's lots


of applications that make a lot of money


and they have lots of users the point is


where are we or I'm asking that do the


experts from Poland in America I'm


asking where are we in there in the


rails community like because I mean


let's ignore that we were rejecting


enterprise and all this stuff I mean we


are all writing enterprise software hey


everyone he's writing enterprise


software right because you were at


software for more than one lecture


developers here oh yeah I think it's a


good start of the discussion like where


are we right now is community and I


think the idea behind this panel was


also to bring together people who who


are responsible for some of the tooling


around this as well because I think


Trailblazer is already here in the


community for quite a while I think it's


popular because you are popular I'm kind


of responsible for race events tour


five years ago he said I smell because


those three beers ago and Nathan is


responsible for Eventide yes Houston is


a project by the way oh really


yeah you didn't know you never told me


because you never got me he forgot he he


even came to my hometown and didn't even


call me or hit me up on Twitter yeah


that's that's the Ruby community you


know like you you meet people you forget


about that it's not how I work Lee and I


have feelings I think we got to the


point where we have to link I think that


was my point


I think the tooling is it's getting more


and more stable so it's not only that


rails is stable and mature and so on but


also the tooling for I don't know a


higher level architectures or some


additional stuff however we want to call


what we do and for example with rails


even story it was a long time we were


discussing whether we should do


something about race even store whether


such tools should exist then we decided


it's a good idea and you know it things


started to happen around this we have


now some github repository some gems


around it trade weather is very active


event right is also super interesting in


terms of you know event-driven


approaches so I think we got to the


point where now people experiment with


those tools right how many of you


experimented with at least one of the


tools here so that's good to hear and


probably probably there's still some


things that don't work and can be fixed


especially with straight laser but but


it would be nice it would be nice to get


some idea what some questions around it


like when would you like to introduce


such to link in your code base because


the alternative is also now go without


such tooling maybe you won't prefer to


build your own or you know build some


other structure I think I don't know if


it's a problem at that what we have


right now is like there's some companies


using you know the pure rails way


let's don't discuss this then there are


lots of companies who building their own


like tooling and then there is companies


using tools that we have like event res


event store event ID tribes' all this


kind of stuff dry Abby and I think


Enterprise means that you use tools that


are available you know I mean I'm just


looking at Java or something and like


they have tools for everything and they


are kind of standout and I think


enterprise means that's my understanding


you use existing tools instead of


rebuilding everything all the time so


yeah I mean your question aims at that


but this is my interpretation of how we


get Ruby to the next level is to use or


reuse tools that are there instead of


like because the the the most companies


just rebuilt stuff you know like


half-assed pardon my french


and they they rebuild stuff we have and


so we kind of lose the idea of what is a


pattern and what is a good abstraction


what is an interface for this and that


pattern because we always build yeah I


got a service object yeah I got view


objects yeah I got form objects but they


all have different API so I think


enterprise would mean we use a


standardized form object for example so


um and and that the the problem is that


Ruby is saying it's a problem it's not a


problem to put the the thing is that


Ruby allows you to do things in a


hundred different ways and we do it so


there's no standards basically so which


is why you have to ask who is using


event ID for example yeah I think


there's another point here too which is


these enterprise systems if you think


about a bank or a healthcare company


what you find is that it's very very


irregular or abnormal for one of these


large-scale systems to be doing


everything in a web request response


context but when we build when we when


we start a company and we build a web


app with rails we're kind of putting


everything in this route web request


response cycle and I think that there's


a transition that happens when you stop


looking at your work as web development


and you start looking at as software


development with some web sometimes for


the front end and I think that if we


want to have


we won't have to have Ruby be a vibrant


community for all kinds of software


development then I think that we have to


sort of wean ourselves off of this


fixation on the web and start and start


focusing on software in a more general


fashion very cute guys so there's one


question I think which is close to this


discussion


right now like right by default comes


with MVC right is it enough for


successful enterprise app or not enough


I would say it's not enough and it was


always alive about the MVC pattern it it


was never true MVC pattern on the back


end and I like I would agree with what


you said is one of the definition of


enterprise I would say it's like it's


not only a web application anymore and


can you decouple the rails layer from


your application can you use your


application like outside of the web


environment everything like for example


with rails even store that's kind of to


help you separate your application from


rails rails because it's


serving customer needs a more complex


way then you stopping getting funding


you are independent then you are an


enterprise a matter of fact not like if


you have my point or not about when your


company start stop to be like so the but


you're not saying that I mean using


different languages or something for the


different components and the environment


is doesn't say anything about the okay


no I mean from a generic point of view


the more you split your I mean I'm not


saying hey let's have 500 micro services


because it sucks but I think the more


you split your application to different


parts the more Enterprise you are


because it means you are thinking about


architecture interfaces what is going


where who shouldn't be knowing about


responsibilities can I be the first


person to say bounded context DDD yeah


considering enterprise projects are big


does it requires application to be


distributed or does majestic monolith is


still reasonable according to the edge


edge sorry it's very hard it's very


difficult at the two to grow a complex


software system in a single process


boundary and the minute that you


introduce process boundaries whether


it's threads or UNIX tile operating


system processes or independent docker


containers or micro services whatever


your your physical topology is you're


going to you're going to encounter


distributed systems problems and you're


gonna need to be ready for them so


there's no way around it I would love to


not have to worry about things like


idempotence and concurrency but they


have to be understood and the best that


we can do is provide tooling that gives


people the right controls to be able to


implement safe and robust distributed


systems that always work and work just


as well as a simple fizzbuzz program in


once Christian I'm afraid to say I'm not


talking about elixir and in fact that


would challenge you to say if you need


something like a lick sir


to achieve disturb us distributed


systems then you're not actually


understanding how distributed systems


work you're following patterns for an


ecosystem that was designed for


distributed systems and one of the


things that we want for event ID is we


never want to turn event ID into the


rails for distributed messaging or


distributed systems because then people


won't understand how the fundamental


physics underneath works and it will


always bite them so I think in in fact


we can't look to tools to solve


distributed systems problems for us we


can we can look to them to help inside


makes it makes distributed systems


easier basically right by design it it


doesn't allow somebody who's incapable


of building distributed systems that are


robust able to do so it is it is the


tooling that someone who is already in


possession of that knowledge it will


help them and save them some time from


having their themselves so it's kind of


a built-in idiot-proof mechanism it is


it is actually it is actually not I can


I can think of a thousand in one ways to


use a vent ID to build a terrible system


that doesn't mean that comes


automatically with any tool basically of


course yeah as rails in a great way but


the software development world's


proclivity towards solutions that try to


take the hard problems away from them is


something that I think we have to push


back against all the time because we all


have a tendency to succumb to magic


silver bullets and and I I I just don't


think that I want to be responsible for


releasing a project that leads people to


think that they've got a silver bullet


that they can use to shoot themselves in


the foot but but I mean even event tight


encouraged people to build small stable


software I guess like that's that's your


goal well the authors of event I do yeah


otherwise you wouldn't be building it


right like you want to make people


empower people do yes have the tools to


build more stable momentum a software


but we don't but but when we do so we


don't teach people event I'd we use it


as a teaching tool in workshops and


whatnot but we teach people how to


deliver a message from point A to point


B


such that it is processed once for


instance and yes event ID is tooling


that helps you do that but the important


thing is the knowledge that goes into


how to analyze your system and translate


it into bounded context and how to


communicate across those contexts safely


I think like I think it's worth having a


look at Eventide if you haven't it I


think it's relatively I'm not that


popular overall but it's very


interesting even though we may have


different opinions like when - Mogo


micro-services and when when not to go


there I think the overall trend will


sooner or later force us to go


distribute it and then you will have


problems like how to deliver one message


from one place to another place and


deliver it once or execute process it


once there there's many interesting


things and the nice thing about Eventide


as I understand it is that it's a it's a


good foundation for a first start for


for starting doing this problem the


delivering messages or is it engineering


it's the infrastructure I would say no I


mean I mean there are languages you know


I don't know like Koba is not a language


but they think the mechanism was


invented like 30 years ago


maybe not 30 years but like messaging


for example like Koba you know you call


a method on a different object there


might be a different language in a


different ecosystem and so we those


mechanisms exist you know like I'm just


wondering is well is that a ruby problem


that we have maybe there no we use Ruby


because we love Ruby and we haven't


switched to a new language because we


still another applause but I but I think


you know just just like distributed


messaging is a problem that's decades


old so is part I mean we used to it not


we I wasn't involved in software was


call this but what we call micro


services now what used to be


service-oriented architecture used to


just be called partitioning and


partitioning has been around for decades


as well and these ideas aren't new and I


would actually suggest that be it's the


constant changing of these technology


fads that leads us to never really delve


deep into these concepts and we


constantly reinvent them and give them


new names to make them popular but it's


like as a it's as if the software


development world doesn't make progress


because we change things at the


surface like switching Ruby for a lick


sir for instance and that's that you


know I think sir comes with a built-in


yeah it comes in messaging basically it


comes in it comes it ships Erlang ships


with an actor/model that solves certain


kinds of problems also with like you


know processes like you can detach a


process which is basically like a threat


or a guilt in Ruby 2 point 3 point


something or whatever 5.0 and you you


know you have this messaging built-in


basically in the language so sometimes


I'm wondering maybe is Ruby like


blocking us from from using distributed


models because I me me as you say like


you know it will end up software has to


be distributed so it has to be


partitioned beautiful word I've never


used it before and software has to be


like in small components that's that's


that's like there's no way around this


you don't want to have one big


application you change one thing and you


break five other things but I'm


wondering is Ruby sometimes I wonder is


Ruby the problem like is it maybe other


languages do they make it better I I'm


not liking the experience


process-oriented


you need to optimize whole construction


of the system to be process oriented


it's not universal language this is the


problem of Alexi as well right even if


you're looking for more general-purpose


language which giving you more options


if you look look at for example


enclosure you can choose transactional


memory processes or threads it's up to


you so it's not about the language again


for my own in my opinion see Alixe it is


good only in the process oriented stuff


in messaging but other stuff will be


block you like many use cases would be


more difficult to make it in elixir


because of such architecture okay that's


good because I'm literally lacking


experience with other languages I've


been doing Ruby for like hundred years


because ruby was like invented 100 years


ago I will say you know if you work in


multi-threaded software real-time


systems where you have semaphores in


mutexes


concurrent or parallel programming or


parallel computing is always very


difficult and in fact the vast majority


of programmers never reach a stage where


it's they're comfortable


operating in highly multi parallel


environments with lots of different


asynchronous processes communicating and


I think one of the things we did with


event ID is is and actually it's not


it's something we invented with event


type following the patterns of event


sourcing we found a means by which we


can build these do these independent


autonomous services using patterns that


we can teach to everyday programmers and


I think that that's probably the most


important thing blocking the software


development world from as you say taking


on distributed computing more and I


think even sourcing is a key point in


this in this transition because it


encourages encapsulation right I mean


you have different systems talking via


events not via like even sourcing


precisely means building the states out


of events so that's how I like different


ways of dealing with persistence mmm-hmm


once you have even sourcing everything


else like comes for free like you can


decouple the bounded context or whatever


way you want to call them you can go


distribute it because now you are like


fully even driven and I think this is


this is like one of the steps in the


bigger like longer-term transition that


you can start with a model it and then


decouple your modules and communicate


between those modules using events and


once you have the events you can then


even source everything in this


application language yes you know


instead of what we are doing with active


record is we're always keeping the data


in the last state we don't keep them the


history we don't we can't rebuild it


from them from the beginning and in some


applications that would be usually was


okay


that's how rails is doing the stuff this


is how crowds are working but for bigger


systems you know going events seems to


be like more and more accepted and yeah


probably required and if you need to go


distributed at some point it's also hard


to imagine any other protocol than


messages


so if you have it built-in in the


Molalla to you it probably would be


easier for you to go into distributed


way and I think we are also like look at


how languages didn't change that much


over the last 10 years


for example and but also look how the


way we deploy our race applications did


change over those last 10 years so how


we struggle 10 years ago we were


starting the race application because it


was leaking and we are all dealing with


the with our servers and so on and that


the tooling kept changing it was like


passenger Puma and now now probably many


people here you are using some kind of


Heroku or some other clouds the big


companies like Amazon there is investing


huge money in their platforms will


probably all end up in their ecosystems


they are investing huge money in


serverless that's like important


keywords to follow for the next 10 years


probably and serverless is based on


events you should have your own chair


and we gave you a separate service as


well because like when you take a look


on the survey less you have events this


is true but mostly low level about


resources in the server less


architecture you know that some file was


uploaded some states ask in general is


sorry if I interrupt your statement but


so event tight and rails events so is


both event what we call the seek no


naughty correct so rails even stories


DDD even sourcing and secure us support


ID is also even sourcing right now what


I was wondering and I wanted to ask you


guys that actually like I actually


wanted to ask you that is so event


sourcing is not so lots of people think


of event sourcing as like a historical


database like you can restore something


but I think is that that's not the key


of event sourcing right the key is like


like you say like designing events


that that defined the system behavior


basically right or am I wrong definition


even the driven architectures is when


you react to those events even sourcing


means on the other building from then is


only a side effect of the design around


events right that's our natural


consequence because many people say oh


we need a historical database let's use


event sourcing and that's not my


understanding of events hosting events


awesome for me means I don't think in


active record calls I think in like


business domain concerns and what might


happen when and how they communicate


which is kind of like what I think you


were talking about the same like when


you said it's low-level events you meant


like we have to talk more about like


business events exactly like one thing


which you mentioned again about bounded


context is one important fact when you


like there was a few comparisons about


like when you're using bounded context


properly in your domain driving


application it's much easier to slice it


later on by the borders of the of the


bounded context to be like microservice


and then the messaging liar is let you


like connect them together like in a


synchronic way but this again you cannot


I mean youth article you can like send


events and and and publish them over the


all bonded context but I would say oh


this is also the best way because then


information about current implementation


of event it's also leaking out so I


would also easily late somehow by under


collection layers between different


services and so on but like I said


bounded contact is a perfect candidate


to think about micro service of course


only if you keeping on state inside I


agree and that this is where they just


connect like being even sourced even


driven doesn't mean you have to go ddd


but it's a really nice combination of


things


yep yeah i think and i think we've


missed to to huge benefits of event


sourcing the first ones around when we


talk about distributed systems one of


the one of the most important things to


understand when you when you especially


if you come from rails so in rails you


have this notion of these these models


that are your nouns and and they're your


state database tables basically yeah and


you've also got background jobs when you


need to move some some code outside of


your request response cycle you put it


in background job well let's talk about


background jobs for a second


if the if the if our active record


models a bank account and our background


job is transferring funds from one


account to another we can if we move to


event sourcing or an event sourcing


paradigm we can actually model both of


these as event sourced entities we can


have long-running business objects like


a bank account or in order or we can


have these short-term temporal processes


like moving money from A to B and those


short-term processes can actually


coordinate activity with other systems


and that's how we can build we can build


distributed systems out of event


sourcing that work really well and the


other the other benefit that I think


we've missed is as an information


architecture you can think of events as


being like a stem cell in the sense that


they're undifferentiated they're unup


enya nated about what they mean they


just reflect what occurred and when you


think about all of the events from a


data perspective when you think about


all the events that have been written


you can now transform them into any


other kind of representation this is why


when people get excited by eventually


saying they get excited about being able


to produce new reports that include


historical data that's an application of


the fundamental truth which is that


events are them the ross most usable


form of data that you can store and if


you look at your data and your


information as an asset then event


sourcing maximizes the value of that


asset but the historical pod is only a


side effect of event sourcing right


right like you don't see well I think


really want to take that back it's it's


it's a great side effect but it's it's


like because people always whether or


not you disposition as a side effect


probably depends on what your priorities


are but but the event sourcing wasn't


invented to make to replay something


events and I have no idea what I'm


talking about like event sourcing in my


understanding this is really fun then if


you're an expert you you don't have a


chair you just sit somewhere in the


audience and get your own microphone so


event sourcing was


events lousing was build around like


designing a system with bounded contacts


and communicating by events right and


then they the the historical database


thing is only they think that's


something that comes automatically


basically right yeah which is because


that's that's this another thing I


always like wonder about is like we have


event sourcing then we have event event


driven design or something like that


then DDD which uses events but not event


sourcing right so maybe I'm hurts my


CQRS where's your microphone so someone


asks whether it's possible to combine in


try blazer with even sourcing and


secures but and you don't have to answer


that in my talk I mean can we clarify


that because I'm really genuinely


interested in events or saying I love


the idea of their you know communicating


components and this kind of stuff like


historical events not like let's change


state and just change it like the way


actually fracker does it but I never


understood what's so it does Trailblazer


use events somehow yeah so in 12 is a


2.1 you're gonna see it in my talk


unless you go to the pop or something in


ten minutes we kind of apply BPMN


conventions to to to like the way we


model processes and ppm n has events and


events are the same events that you have


an event sourcing I don't know what's


the appropriate word that's my problem


yeah that's more that's more enterprise


than I'm willing to go wait which is why


I'm wearing a suit I know but that's you


know I mean for me it would be helpful


if I know like event ID let's take event


ID what patterns


does it bring and what's the


architectural idea behind it well do we


have about an hour or two hours or we


will have a talk by night and listen I


mean there there there there are over 30


libraries that make up event ID so I I


think if for the general idea is the


general idea is it's it's a collection


of libraries that are useful to anybody


who wants to implement systems with


event sourcing and or sourcing


so even sourcing plus micro services


optional part relevant store is like


even sourcing DeeDee and Sakura res but


without the micro services part and now


he's blaming me for not knowing all


those abbreviations and patterns and so


much time like you know maintain 39 gems


like I have totally time to read books I


actually read books but they are novels


do you think that enterprise libraries


like yours should be paid libraries or


free would you would you like to be paid


for Trailblazer I am but directly like


if someone wants to use three browser


and you give you gifting some more


features well we have paid gems coming


up very soon so we kind of I mean it's


still open source but it's paid because


it makes sense and lots of companies


want to throw money at us to say hey


let's here you go which is where I can


afford very expensive apparel


I don't know I kind of think walled


gardens usually die I think it's very


hard to build an enthusiastic community


around proprietary products and of


course I would love to make a fortune


off of the work that I've done but at


the same time I you know my colleague


and I we started with a vent I'd not


cotton we didn't have a name we were


solving problems that we had and there


was tooling that was not available and


our mission is really centered around


making sure when other people fine


you know when other people are in those


in the in that same position that they


have tooling available to them and I


think that's more important than


personal profit thank you


so we Fred even store the most


inspiration comes from our clients


projects and ready Steven stories mostly


you know funded and supported by our


concei so it is like similarly as in


base campus is more than one project so


usually heard enough five projects at


one time and we try to introduce receive


and store and use some even driven


approaches and we see what is important


what's helpful and that's how we


introduce like some patterns support one


by one like at the beginning we've had


aggregates recently we've got a really


nice addition of process managers


because now we support the idea of


having events within many streams and it


was always needed in our project so


immediately when once we help support


for participant enters we it was


immediately much easier in our clients


projects to use process managers and


this is like one of really beautiful


patterns in the domain driven design


community but also in


[Music]


[Music]


[Music]


[Music]


[Music]


Thanks sometimes open-source developers


compliments sometimes and sometimes


sometimes open-source developers need


constructive criticism as well but do


you get that automatically come on like


I don't want to know how many fights you


had over event ID versus Raceway and


this kind of stuff


come on you're always welcome if you


ever want to air it out on game


ask one question do you imagine someone


using parts of your ecosystems in one


project like what would you say it would


be the part of eventide you would like


to use in project with even store or the


other way around so can you imagine ways


to incorporate parts of these systems in


one application I was wondering the same


but I didn't ask because it would tell


them that I don't know


I would like like we are inspired a tree


a Troye Sivan store we are inspired by


Eventide like with the way they when


distributed from the beginning we are


ready Steve and store is for monolithic


race applications right now we are


working on the dist support for


distributed systems and you know send


messages reliably over the network still


in progress and we are under big


influence here so event ID is more low


level in a way or what's it where is the


overlap actually well I think I think in


terms so I think I would wager that


probably the things that you can do in


rails event store overlap very strongly


with the things that you can do an event


type Trailblazer on the other hand I


look at Trailblazer as and and you can


correct me because I'm in ignorance


because I haven't personally use it on


one of my projects but it looks like a


front-end framework for building the


website or the user interface side you


know with cells and and some of the


other features so I can imagine I


actually can imagine employing


Trailblazer


more likely than then rails event story


simply because of the strong overlap


with what these two projects do so both


gems or projects implement event event


sourcing is it the right word I think we


we probably went more into this DDD re


area word event I didn't go like so so


even but event ID I understand as a like


a low-level framework for event sourcing


like the pattern basically right and you


can message send events to other


participants and


they this will run the process


automatically defined by event ID right


this is kind of how worse I mean I


looked at it on github which is like


pretty cool like that read me scoop then


um also you website man that's not me


that's Scott he's got it it's it's


widely published I think you can hit him


up on Twitter but he doesn't actually I


think I think if if I if I if I met the


risk of divulging too much I believe it


might be Squarespace which is a


apparently pretty nice tool for building


websites so I I don't wanna I want to


avoid the term low-level because I think


that it connotes sort of operating


system or complex machinery I think it's


it's event ID is web agnostic which is


what I mean with like low level in terms


of not connected to any framework you


know like Travis is also not connected


to any favor so it's kind of low level


but it's defining a high level


architecture I don't really make sense


but you know what I mean


like it rails event store by name is


bound to rails and implements certain


parents and behavior and events and


naming yeah and I think they overlap


with the idea invented obviously but but


I'm just one I've seen event ID in other


projects not in rails for example yeah


so how hard would it be to use rails


events to it so rarely see Fenster is


just a thin layer on top of Ruby even


store okay Ruby even store is a


collection of libraries also and you can


use it in hanami or wherever you want so


there is like no coupling to rails and


rails the race layer above this is only


to make it more like convenient


convenient for what we're developers


would expect so there is like some kind


of nicer API some nicer conventions at


the rails even store level Ruby even


store is more generic and you can use it


totally without rails


generic was the word not low-level sorry


yeah Mary is much better thanks yeah I I


think the event I'd experienced there's


no web in it anywhere which means when


you're using it in the context


of a web server web framework yet it


doesn't interfere because how could a


web framework interfere with generic


actually that's it's actually proven


rails is proven time and again that it


can and will interfere with code about


this vision around threads even stir


also we started with the idea that it


should be easy to bring credit even


story into an existing rails project


gradually you know make it more even


driven now we go to the point where this


is already done this is like where we


can introduce race even story and race


products and everything just works and


now we want to focus more on the idea of


starting new projects right also release


products but doesn't have to be race and


from the beginning rely on release even


store sort of being even driven from the


beginning being even source from the


beginning I think here we are on the


same page I really I really want to


support the idea of even sourcing almost


fully and that's where we want to go


with phrase even store it in the next


steps so basically when you use an event


sourcing gem may be relevant store event


ID so basically the controller actions


I'm speaking in novice speak now the


controller acts has changed from doing


something specific to like throwing an


event or how is the workflow basically


typically when I when I'm a control


action was a metaphor for like a user


action yeah it's it's um it's a little


bit subtle to explain but yeah when


you're thinking about like a web


controller that's handling your requests


in in the systems that we build with


event ID even if we were to use event ID


without micro services we would probably


be getting out of that request response


cycle very quickly


for instance we would issue a command


message and some consumer might pick up


that command message and carry out the


instruction so I don't know if that


answers your question


but does it answer your question hey


that's a medic


that's so nerdy because like one of my


clients my clients he they are using


event ID with Trailblazer which is like


absolutely not overlapping so basically


what they do is the controller so user


action triggers events and those get


transported by event ID and then the


actual business logic happening after


that is that she gets familiar to me


because I think they hired you like a


couple of weeks ago they told me yeah


yeah dental stuff don't tell anyone


yeah and saying sorry I yeah we're


consultants and that that this kind of


discussion happens why Pat it yeah and


by it now you can save up to write and


that particular that particular


organization I I do look forward to


hearing reports from them about what the


experience was like with trailblazer and


event I what they uh I can tell you


their response


I mean they are moving towards like they


have a really complex system and they


are moving towards event sourcing yeah


and they chose event ID I think they


didn't know about rails event stall


because they started to talk about event


ID from their day one and then so that's


kind of their go-to architecture they


use event ID domain speak they model


their everything is around domains and


events I think that's called DDD or


something and then it's the underlying


low-level business logic framework they


use trade base because they like work


there's no overlap you know link we have


event I'm not okay with advertising even


tight even though there is like some


overlap because I am not here to sell


you release even store but I I'm here to


sell you the idea of being even driven


and even sourced and I don't care if you


use rails even store or even tight for


that I'm finding that I'm also very


comfortable with y'all promoting event


tonight


actually I've heard this pretty not


a good salesman okay so I think that I


agree with that sentiment sorry to


interrupt I do agree with that sentiment


I think getting people to explore and


then invest in new architectural styles


that go beyond rails is something that


benefits everybody and that's why and


this is basically also the finishing


line the closing remark for this I mean


for this panel because in the end of the


day you want to build stable mature


software that's maintainable enterprise


and I think those kind of concepts we


discussed is where we should be heading


those ideas are already in other


communities so it's not like we're


inventing something new here Ruby is


always 50 years B java.net even PHP is


very very far also so it's just catching


up I think okay thank you very much


[Applause]